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Subject: Workshop: Treasurers' Questions - June 4-8
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Gene Rooks

06/06/2007 7:31 PM  
Minette, do not adjust anything in previous tax years.   That is water under the bridge, and you don't want to change units and allocations already closed out for the year.
 
You can go back to January, and edit transactions for this year to reflect your club's current choices, both on funds collected, to post as payments, and expenses, to allocate by membership share.   This will of course change previously distributed Valuation and Member Status reports for this year, but the new ones will be correct and will take precedence.   I would make fresh copies for my treasurer's notebook, and keep them both, with notes, but as for members, just give them a new one for June that reflects any adjustments.    Thanks for writing.

Gene Rooks
generooks@cfl.rr.com

Stan Howe


06/07/2007 7:52 AM  
this stinks, i had just typed a 45 minite carefull reply, was ready to post and it disappeared.

Audralyn Odom


06/07/2007 8:07 AM  
I have a burning question. I am a new club officer and one of my goals for this year is to have a reconciliation of all dues paid by the partners. Our club is just over 5 years old. In the early years of the club, there was not a tight control over the dues payments/deposits that were made by the partners. So needless to say, not everything posted to the CAO matches with the existing bank statements. We've asked the partners to review their individual valuation statements to determine any inconsistencies and to provide documentation to support a correction to CAO.
Once we've completed the reconciliation activities, our plan is to move funds in the CAO accounts to match existing bank statements and move forward from there. My concern is that there may be excess/deficit amounts in the CAO accounts as compared to existing bank statement balances. Any suggestions about how to handle any excess/deficit in CAO as compared to existing bank statements?
Thanks. I appreciate this forum!

Joe Craig
Ellicott City, MD
StockCentral Administrator

06/07/2007 9:28 AM  
Stan,

I'm sorry that this happened.  Even though this won't help the message that went away, if it happens again try hitting the "back" button on the browser to recover your typing.  Then highlight and copy the message so that you can paste it into a fresh editing window.

Joe
Gene Rooks

06/07/2007 11:35 AM  
Stan, don't feel alone.   That happened to me on my first posting I had prepared.   I now just do it on a blank Email, and when I am satisfied, cut and paste to the forum.   Please let us have your question.     Best wishes

Gene Rooks
generooks@cfl.rr.com

Joe Craig
Ellicott City, MD
StockCentral Administrator

06/07/2007 1:24 PM  
I should have also said that I'll lengthen the timeout, just as soon as I can figure out how to do it!

Joe

James Gleeson


06/07/2007 1:48 PM  
Can you describe the use of the Online Accounting message boards and how they relate to email?.

Madeleine Grafton


06/07/2007 4:11 PM  
What are the disadvantages for record keeping in investing in REITs?

Gene Rooks
Gotha, FL (W. of Orlando)


06/07/2007 5:36 PM  
Audralyn, you have your work cut out for you, how sad that the previous officers let the records become so sloppy.   This is a reason why clubs should have a committee each year review the accounting records against the broker and bank records, to be sure cash on hand agrees, and number of securities on hand agree, including reinvested dividends.   This should be done every month by the treasurer, when it is easy to catch discrepancies.  Let us hope it isn't too bad.  
 
In CAO, you can provide each member with their Individual Unit Ledger from the beginning of the club, that they can check against their personal records to see if any payments submitted were not posted.   You can also print out a Cash Deposits Report, dated from the beginning of the club, which will list for you for each month who paid what, as far as what has been posted.  You can then start the work of verifying each months deposit records from your statements to see if they match what has been posted.  I am going to defer further advice until you know where you stand.  Please write back here, or to me privately at GeneRooks@cfl.rr.com.

Gene Rooks, Director
Space Coast Chapter
Accounting Instructor

Gene Rooks
Gotha, FL (W. of Orlando)


06/07/2007 6:15 PM  
Madeleine, REIT's can be a wonderful investment.   The reason you sometimes are warned away from investing in them is that they, like royalty trusts and limited partnerships, pay dividends and various capital returns during the year, but usually after the end of the year, they send out amended reports on how their payments should be classified.   These late reports can come out as late into the tax season as April, and most club members have been clamoring for their K-1's since January.  Of course, they really should not expect them until late February or March.  If you have already done your reports, you would then have to redo them, and so would any members who have already filed.   I'm not saying it can't be done, just know what you are getting into before you approve your club making that sort of investment. 

Gene Rooks, Director
Space Coast Chapter
Accounting Instructor

Gene Rooks
Gotha, FL (W. of Orlando)


06/07/2007 8:54 PM  
The next two postings are going to cover questions on several issues that frequently come up. What is PIPE, What are Unit Values, What is CAR, What do my Reports Mean, and more.
 
All club members should acquire a basic understanding of the various reports, especially the information on the Member Status Report and Valuation Statement.   Other reports usually given on an annual basis are the Transaction Summary for the year, and your Individual Unit Ledger, showing your contributions for the year. 
 
1.     On the Member Status report, the Total Paid In should reflect what each person has actually paid to the club in monthly dues and fees, if any. Payments buy units, fees do not, but the total still counts on your tax basis when your account is liquidated.
 
2.     On the Member Status report, the most misunderstood column is the total Paid In Plus Earnings (PIPE). Individually, your total PIPE represents your actual contribution (see above), plus (or minus) each year’s tax gain (or loss) that was reported on your K-1’s. This total is your tax basis in the club, meaning taxes have already been paid on this amount, and will not be included on the taxable gains reported when you withdraw. 
 
3.     Most columns on the Member Status Report are self-explanatory. The Current Market Value is what your share was worth as of the valuation date shown in the header, not the date the report was printed. The next column represents your percentage share of the club’s total assets that month, which includes cash on hand and securities.
 
4.     The final column, if elected to be included, would be the Compound Annual Return (CAR) for each member from their date of joining, unless a later beginning date was selected. CAR is accurate but misleading for less than one year, since it is an annualized figure. New members who paid a signup fee will show negative for a while, since the fee did not purchase units for them. The CAR% shown at the end of the Totals line represents the average of not only all current members, it also includes past members. CAR is, as my friend Jim Thomas so well explains, and I quote, “In all cases for CAR, there is a beginning investment (perhaps zero), an ending value, and intermediate investments and withdrawals. The question is what interest rate (APY) would a savings account need to pay so that making those beginning and intermediate investments and withdrawals would produce the ending value.   CAR is that interest rate.” Now, if you want to know how it is computed, you will have to ask him.
I just trust the software did it right. (And it did on my account, I did check it)
 
 5.     Warning, if a withdrawn member still remains on the Member Status report with a small amount of units or balance, there has been an error which must be corrected.

Gene Rooks, Director
Space Coast Chapter
Accounting Instructor

Gene Rooks
Gotha, FL (W. of Orlando)


06/07/2007 8:58 PM  

Continued:

  1.     Your PA should specify what the official valuation date should be for your club.  Only one valuation saved in the software should be done each month.  This is the process that determines the unit value from one month to the next.  All member transactions, like payments, withdrawals, or some expenses, are based on the last saved valuation in the software, which is why only the official one should be saved.

 2.     When a club first starts, its usual commencing unit value is $10 to buy one unit.  That lasts only until you have your first expense, or make your first stock purchase.  From then on, the unit value will vary each month.  It is computed easily enough in concept.  Each month’s unit value is determined by dividing the total club value, cash and stock prices on the valuation date, by the total number of units all active members hold at that time.  The bottom lines on the Valuation Statement show all these factors, and give you what the current unit value is, and also what percent of a unit your original $10 will buy this month.  Differing unit values each month mean a $50 member payment won’t buy the exact same number of units every month.   That is why two people can both have $1000 in the club, but if they put it in at different times, they will have a different number of units, and therefore different total value.   And yes, it is fair, the very fairest way to handle club contributions.  Each person has his contribution working for the time he has it paid in.  Buying shares of a mutual fund is done the same basic way. The software takes care of it very easily.   Imagine trying to do it in a notebook.

 3.     On the Valuation Statement, most of the security columns are self-explanatory.  The Market Value of stocks shown is the closing price at the end of the day the Valuation Statement is based upon, not the day it was printed.  The following column represents the percentage that particular stock is of the club’s total value, which includes cash.  Scanning that can tell you if you have way too much in any one stock, or if another is such a small percent, you either need to sell it, or buy more of it if is a good value at the time. 

 4.     The last column on the Valuation Statement, if chosen, would be the Compound Annual Return (CAR) of each security from the time it was purchased, unless a later beginning date was selected.  If that stock has been getting less than at least 10% CAR for some time, it might be time for review to see if another selection would bring a better return.  CAR is accurate but misleading for stocks held less than one year, since it is an annualized figure.  The final figure in the Totals line represents not only current securities, but those owned in the past, to show your club’s average portfolio return.   

 5.     On the Individual Valuation Units Ledger you should expect to get at the end of the year, check to see that the number of units purchased varies each month.  Except at the very beginning when there have been no expenses and no stock purchased, these values will change each month, unless there has not been a valuation saved in between, which is something that should be corrected.  If you don’t show funds posted that you believe you paid, now is the time to clear it up.

 6.     Another report you should ask to see at the end of the year is a Transactions Summary.   This report is the easiest one to follow the various categories of transactions the club has had during the year.  This is a good way for members to help audit the club accounting. 

 7.     In line with verifying accurate club accounting, this is a responsibility of the whole club, not just the treasurer or officers.  If you don’t understand something, ask.   If they don’t know, nudge them to find out.  I have seen a club’s database where for an entire year, individual payments were not posted to the members who paid them.  The clueless treasurer had posted the whole amount as Income, so cash balanced, but no one had questioned that their unit values weren’t climbing each month. 

Please post any questions or clarifications you would like on any of this material. 


Gene Rooks, Director
Space Coast Chapter
Accounting Instructor

Stan Howe


06/08/2007 1:46 AM  
OK, I’ll try again! This time drafting in word and pasting into the forum, tough lesson to learn!
 
Gene said “The next question that arises is, how do you allocate club expenses in Club Accounting?  There are two options, By Ownership Share, or By Member/Equal Allocation. The default, standard pratice, and IRS expectation is By Ownership Share.”
 
I am the new Financial Partner for our club. (Previously the Junior Partner until our original FP stepped down after 8 years). Right away I had noticed the little check box in the software for “equal allocation” and discussed it at the next meeting.
 
Even though our PA is written with the expectation that we all participate equally ($50 per month), we as a club have been plagued by partners who were delinquent in their contributions. Recently we invoked the “automatic withdrawal” clause for three such partners who were severely delinquent but other less delinquent partners still remain.
 
These delinquencies, combined with that little check box got me thinking! For stock purchase and sales, fee’s and commissions, I agree it should be allocated by ownership share. Conversely I think for those expenses incurred because we are in a partnership such as annual updates to CA3, BI memberships, tax printing software, and tax time postage they should be allocated equally. We all benefit equally from these expenses. The way I see it, those that were delinquent are not paying their share of these common expenses, but those who paid on time each month were being penalized. Is this Fair?
 
Gene also said “If this is not how your club is going to do it, after considering all the aspects, your Partnership Agreement has to spell out the variance.”
 
We are currently drafting a revision to our PA, and I have already recommended wording as follows:
Expenses relative to the operation of the club, such as the club accounting software and updates, tax software, postage fees for club mailings, office supplies, and banking fees shall be borne equally between all partners regardless of the value of their capital accounts.
 
The obvious down side is new partners, of which we have never had any, although it is allowed by our PA, thus far we have only lost partners from the 25 original down to 13 existing. I would appreciate your comments on this suggestion.
 
My next question is also related to expenses and the PA. Our current PA requires;
 ‘Funds in the bank account shall be withdrawn by checks signed by the Financial Partner and the Senior Partner’
These seems a reasonable check and balance procedure, yet has delayed important expenditures like the tax time expenses mentioned above. This year I took over the FP duties at tax time, and paid for the software updates, tax printer and postage with my personal CC, then put in for re-imbursement. Because the SP was working out of town, it took two months before I was reimbursed. I can afford it, but it does not seem fair that I carry this expense for the club! 
 
I do a lot for my club, am one of the most honest, responsible people you may meet, want to do what is right without violating any laws, but want the freedom to manage the finances without unnecessary burden so I am also suggesting adding the following wording changes to our PA.
(or the Junior partner in absence of the Senior Partner) except as delineated below.
a)       To expedite the annual accounting, tax preparation, NAIC renewals, and communications required by this agreement the following expenses may be withdrawn by checks signed solely by the financial partner and incurred without pre-approval at a monthly meeting, but shall be appropriately logged and discussed at the following meeting;
1.       Annual updates or maintenance fees for the club accounting software
2.       Annual tax printer software
3.       Postage fee’s to mail the appropriate tax forms to partners and the IRS.
4.       Postage fees for Written Notices and certified letters as required by this agreement.
5.       Annual Dues for NAIC membership’
Is this something other clubs do, or am I treading in dangerous territory? Sorry this post is so long, but as the new FP I want to ensure I get it right the first time, and not develop any bad habits.

Gene Rooks
Gotha, FL (W. of Orlando)


06/08/2007 9:23 AM  
Stan, I am impressed, a new treasurer who is really putting thought into the process.  I understand your point about members who aren't quite equal owners because of their delinquency, and if you reworded your PA as you suggested, that would handle that seeming discrepancy.  But frankly, I would still allocate By Membership Share, and instead, install a late fee for delinquent members, which would increase everyone's unit values, without buying them units.  If you enforced the late fee if not brought current within 30 days of being missed, perhaps they would pay up a little better.  (I usually am not a fan of late fees, and we did away with them in my club. Ours were always an unexpectedly missed meeting, made up for at the next meeting or sooner.)
 
As you pointed out, when you start recruiting new members, which you may want to start doing to keep your club from dwindling too much, equal allocation on small new owners is grossly unfair.  And after eight years, finding a new member willing to pony up close to what others have in the club would be difficult, if not impossible, and is certainly not necessary.   The accounting programs have no problem in club members owning various percentages paid at different times, just as mutual funds have very large share holders, and minimal share holders.   And, their expenses are not shared equally by all of them, they are instead spread across the value of all shares.
 
On to the check signing question, first you have to clear with your broker or bank who your accepted signees are, by name, not by title, you may need to have them update their records.  Having two signers is not usually a requirement with them, you may want to discuss that with the club to make the process smoother.  But you do want there to be at least two authorized signers in the club who can write a check on their own with club approval, in case of sickness or absence of the usual signer.
 
I like your idea of putting in the bylaws that the treasurer can prepay certain necessary expenses when due from club funds, ratifying with the club at the following meeting.    To avoid writing a club check for small out of pocket items like postage, you could accumulate those tickets until they reach a certain amount for reimbursement, done within the tax year spent.
 
One other suggestion I might make is when rewriting your PA, keep the overall intent clear, but open ended, with details spelled out in the ByLaws.   ByLaws can be revised more easily than a PA, requiring only a club vote, not a redo and resigning.    For instance, your PA may state that meetings will be held once a month.   Your ByLaws can state that it will be the third Monday, since later you may wish to switch to another time.
 
Thank you for writing, and I'm sure your club will benefit from your diligence.

Gene Rooks, Director
Space Coast Chapter
Accounting Instructor

Minette Curnutt


06/08/2007 12:57 PM  

Gene,

Thank you for your expertise advise!  I feel I have benefited from reading the Treasurer's Workshop Classroom Forum.   The payments and fees was the most enlightening topic for me.

Minette


JAMES THOMAS


06/08/2007 1:12 PM  

> To avoid writing a club check for small out of pocket items like postage, you could accumulate those tickets until they reach a certain amount for reimbursement, done within the tax year spent. <

You could also reimburse the member with club units.

See http://biwiki.editme.com/ClubExpensesReimbursing .


Gene Rooks
Gotha, FL (W. of Orlando)


06/08/2007 2:17 PM  
This post is a potpourri of FAQ.
 
Why do I have to put in an ex-dividend date?  
This has been a requirement since 2003, when a different tax rate on dividends was instituted for long term holdings vs. stocks held less than 60 consecutive days during the period before and after the ex-dividend date.  The ex-dividend date is available on www.earnings.com  and under Historical Prices on Yahoo Finance, checking the button for dividends.   The date shown is the ex-dividend date.    If you don't own the stock on the ex-dividend date, you won't get the dividend.   It is usually two business days prior to the official record date of the dividend, which is normally received 3 to 6 weeks after that.    The accounting program separates the qualifying vs. non-qualifying dividends based on the date you put in, so you want it to be correct, not just a guesstimate.  Keep the faith, IClub promises they are working on making the input automatic for you.  Nag them a little, I do ;-)
 
Our club wants to keep members equal, but we see differences in our unit values and total value.  Why? 
I touched on this on a previous post.  In my opinion, it is a waste of effort, and it is not necessary, to plan on having equal members.   Even if you start out equal, each person putting in the same amount of money in exactly the same valuation period, it won't last.  Sooner or later Mary has to skip a meeting at the last minute, and doesn't get her payment in until the next month.   Or John prepays three months because he is going on a long trip.  Since unit values change every month, this means contributions buy slightly varying numbers of units.    Then a couple of years later, you want to take in a new member, which is good, clubs should be open to recruiting new blood.  No matter which way you slice it, they cannot buy the same number of units current members have with the same contribution.  If they buy in the same total value others have, they get the same number of units, but it costs them usually much more than the other members have as Total Paid In.   If they make the same total paid in contribution, or even the PIPE others have, they are going to get a very different number of units. 
 
The other deterrent to paying up to others is that as time goes on, it will be more and more difficult to recruit new members who are able or willing to start off with that much, that you have spent years in contributing.  The software can handle differences using the unit value system, it was designed to do so.   We accept new members with only one month's contribution, and a small new member administration fee.   We have members with as little as 1.50% in the club, and charter members nearly 12%, and all figures in between, because we continue to recruit new members.
 
What are appropriate fees for the club to charge members?     
The important thing to remember is that payments buy units for the member, fees do not.  Payments don't change the value of existing units, fees do, they increase slightly the value of all units across the board upon the next valuation, even the one who paid them.   Fees of course add to the total value of the club, and they also are included in the tax basis of the member who paid them, which reduces his taxable realized gain when he withdraws.    Fees should be a personal assessment or penalty charged to one person for a legitimate reason, not across the board for club expenses.  (See previous postings for more on that).  These reasons, in my opinion, include a small new member administration fee, a late fee if your club uses one, a reimbursement for any bounced check charges incurred by the club by a member, or on a withdrawal for actual costs and possibly a small administration fee.  A new member or withdrawal fee should not be looked upon as a penalty.  Which brings me to my next posting, on withdrawals.

Gene Rooks, Director
Space Coast Chapter
Accounting Instructor

Gene Rooks
Gotha, FL (W. of Orlando)


06/08/2007 2:21 PM  

Musings on Withdrawals:

Our PA calls for a 3% withdrawal penalty, can we change that?  
You not only can, in my opinion you should, on any provision that is no longer applicable to your club's operations.  This particular provision which even now shows up in sample PA's is grossly outdated and unfair.  Why would you want to penalize your club member, presumably some level of friend, who has reached the time he needs to withdraw from the club?   Membership in an investment club is not til death do you part, requiring alimony to get out of it.  Do you think you should leave 3% or more behind for the other club members to share by the increase in their unit values when you leave the club?   Do you know who really benefits from those exorbitant fees?  The very last people who leave the club when it disbands, that is who.   Read this article at http://biwiki.editme.com/WithdrawalPenalty  and while you are there, browse around some of the other fine contributions.
 
We have a member withdrawing, and no cash available.  What is the best thing to do?
One thing you don't want to do is leave your member dangling for two or three months until you get enough paid in to cash him out.   Yes, I know, some old PA's give you 60 days or even more.  If I need to withdraw from the club, I don't want to wait that long to get my value out, do you?   And it shouldn't take longer than the meeting you have the resignation read at to devise funding for the payout, or at the most the very next meeting with payout following immediately, if you aren't transferring stock.  
 
If you want to make it a cash payout and won't have enough by the very next meeting, but do have other members who are willing to contribute more at this time to buy new units for themselves, that is one way.   They aren't buying his share, they are buying more for their own, but the club will use the cash to fund the WD.  Another attractive option is to transfer appreciated stock for part of the payout.   See my posting on June 4th and below on this topic for further amplification.  If you don't want to transfer stock, then you need to select stocks to sell that benefit your portfolio the most.   Sell losers, or stocks with little growth prospects, first.   If you need to sell an appreciated stock, sell perhaps part of a too large holding, or a company in a sector you may have too much in.
 
Let's review the best practice withdrawal sequence.  First, the member brings or sends in a resignation letter, and makes no more payment.  If they want to be kind, they will preannounce it to the officers, so they can begin thinking about how they will fund it, to be prepared for making decisions at that meeting.  To avoid market timing, the value of the withdrawing member is not set then, but at the next regular valuation done for the next meeting.   But, you will have a ballpark estimate based on this moth's valuation.  If you are going to transfer stock, that decision needs to be made right then, at that meeting, so transfer can be ordered the day after your next valuation date.  It causes all kinds of questions and confusions to put off transferring stock, since the value is subject to fluctuations up or down without warning, so do it promptly, or don't do it, is my advice.   Decide approximately how many shares you want to transfer, if not an entire holding.   The difference will be made up in cash, leave some leeway in your # of shares estimate.  If you are going to sell stocks, decide which ones, and enter the sale order after the meeting, or, if you have to wait for the next meeting to come to a decision, right after that one.   
 
The withdrawal screens presently have two dates, an announcement date, and a payout date.  The announcement date can be no sooner than the day after the next valuation has been saved, because until then, you won't have a precise amount.   Don't confuse the withdrawal announcement date with the resignation date, as you will get a wrong value if you do.   The payout date can be the same as the announcement date if you are ready to go with transfer/cash option, and you place the broker order and send a check for the difference immediately after the valuation date.   If you are going to use cash, either on hand or from stock sales, and are going to get it all done and the check written during the valuation period the market value was determined on, you can use the same announcement and payout date.   The value will revert back to the last saved valuation date all during that period.   You only need to do different dates if you enter the announcement date on time, but don't actually get a check out until still another month and valuation date has passed.  Then use the actual payout date for the second date.   In the meantime, the amount you owe will appear on your records as a Withdrawal Liability.     

Gene Rooks, Director
Space Coast Chapter
Accounting Instructor

Gene Rooks
Gotha, FL (W. of Orlando)


06/08/2007 2:55 PM  
James Gleeson, I haven't forgotten your query on CAO Email.  We discovered a glitch in checking out the answer, and IClub is working on it.   Right now, you can Email all registered members of your club you have checked, and post on the Message Board, by using two places.   One is the little 'compose message' link on the Club home page, upper right section.  The other location is to click on Message Board, which takes you to the Mailing List screen.  Use the Post link.   Either of these will show up both on the Message Board, and arrive as Email to your checked members.  (You find your registered members by clicking Message Board Setup on the Mailing List screen.  You can check or uncheck as you wish for them to receive a particular mailing.)
 
The glitch is that your members can't respond to their Email and reach everyone, though they can use the above methods to do so.   And, the club Email address link on the Club home page is inoperative, as is the club Email address on the Mailing List screen.  Hopefully they will also become working soon, but meanwhile, you can get through using the post method.   

Gene Rooks, Director
Space Coast Chapter
Accounting Instructor

Gene Rooks
Gotha, FL (W. of Orlando)


06/08/2007 8:36 PM  
That wraps up the 'official' workshop, but if there are any questions or clarification needed at any time, just post here, or over in the Clubhouse,  to get an answer.   It's been fun.

Gene Rooks, Director
Space Coast Chapter
Accounting Instructor

IRA SMILOVITZ
Leonia, NJ


06/11/2007 1:38 PM  

Gene,

Great job! If you don't mind, I'll jump in now with a few comments on specific questions/answers. (Heck! even if you do mind, it'll be too late for you to stop me. )

 

Ira Smilovitz 


IRA SMILOVITZ
Leonia, NJ


06/11/2007 1:44 PM  

Audralyn,

I echo Gene's sympathy for your situation. I am currently working with a club in NJ that is reviewing 13 years of poor recordkeeping (we're almost done), and would be more than willing to help out if you'd like. I can be contacted at iras1@aol.com.

Ira Smilovitz


IRA SMILOVITZ
Leonia, NJ


06/11/2007 1:59 PM  
Posted By Gene Rooks on 06/07/2007 6:15 PM
Madeleine, REIT's can be a wonderful investment.   The reason you sometimes are warned away from investing in them is that they, like royalty trusts and limited partnerships, pay dividends and various capital returns during the year, but usually after the end of the year, they send out amended reports on how their payments should be classified.   These late reports can come out as late into the tax season as April, and most club members have been clamoring for their K-1's since January.  Of course, they really should not expect them until late February or March.  If you have already done your reports, you would then have to redo them, and so would any members who have already filed.   I'm not saying it can't be done, just know what you are getting into before you approve your club making that sort of investment. 


Gene glosses over the problem. REITs can make up to 5 different types of distributions (qualifying dividend, ordinary dividend, return of capital, capital gain, Unrecaptured Section 1250 gain). Usually their distributions are a combination of 2 or more of these types of distributions, each of which receives different tax treatment and needs to be entered differently in the various software programs. Unfortunately, the split of the distributions into the various types is rarely known before year end and often not until February or March.

Another glitch with some REITs is that they can make distributions in January which are taxable in the preceding year. There are workarounds to deal with this, but my opinion is that the investment returns from REITs aren't sufficiently large to compensate for the extra work the treasurer does.

Ira Smilovitz


IRA SMILOVITZ
Leonia, NJ


06/11/2007 2:21 PM  
Posted By Gene Rooks on 06/07/2007 8:54 PM
The next two postings are going to cover questions on several issues that frequently come up. What is PIPE, What are Unit Values, What is CAR, What do my Reports Mean, and more.
 
All club members should acquire a basic understanding of the various reports, especially the information on the Member Status Report and Valuation Statement.   Other reports usually given on an annual basis are the Transaction Summary for the year, and your Individual Unit Ledger, showing your contributions for the year. 
1.     On the Member Status report, the Total Paid In should reflect what each person has actually paid to the club in monthly dues and fees, if any. Payments buy units, fees do not, but the total still counts on your tax basis when your account is liquidated.
2.     On the Member Status report, the most misunderstood column is the total Paid In Plus Earnings (PIPE). Individually, your total PIPE represents your actual contribution (see above), plus (or minus) each year’s tax gain (or loss) that was reported on your K-1’s. This total is your tax basis in the club, meaning taxes have already been paid on this amount, and will not be included on the taxable gains reported when you withdraw.
Both of these amounts (Paid In and PIPE) also include (as a subtraction) the value of any withdrawals taken. For long-term members in a successful club, Paid In can become negative. PIPE can also be negative mid-year but must be $0 or more at the end of each year. If it is negative at year-end, the amount added to PIPE to bring it back to $0 is reported as a capital gain by any member so affected. This is another reason why Withdrawal Reports should always be reissued at year-end - the adjustment amount is not known until then.
Ira Smilovitz
 

IRA SMILOVITZ
Leonia, NJ


06/11/2007 2:41 PM  

Stan,

Congratulations for taking a proactive role as your club's new treasurer. Here are my thoughts on some of your issues.

For stock purchase and sales, fee’s and commissions, I agree it should be allocated by ownership share. Conversely I think for those expenses incurred because we are in a partnership such as annual updates to CA3, BI memberships, tax printing software, and tax time postage they should be allocated equally. We all benefit equally from these expenses. The way I see it, those that were delinquent are not paying their share of these common expenses, but those who paid on time each month were being penalized. Is this Fair?

Fair, like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder. My personal preference is to allocate all deductible expenses on a proportional basis (that is, by ownership share). I look at the investment club as the entity, separate from its members. The club needs the software, postage, etc. (However, I would agree that the individual portion of the BI dues should be allocated equally, or better yet, paid with non-club funds). Why not allocate the earnings equally if you're going to allocate the expenses equally? Equal allocation of expenses may make it more difficult to recruit new members should you choose to do so (and provided the potential member understands all of the provisions of your PA). Having said all that, whatever your club members agree to is fair for them.

My next question is also related to expenses and the PA. Our current PA requires;

 ‘Funds in the bank account shall be withdrawn by checks signed by the Financial Partner and the Senior Partner’

These seems a reasonable check and balance procedure, yet has delayed important expenditures like the tax time expenses mentioned above. This year I took over the FP duties at tax time, and paid for the software updates, tax printer and postage with my personal CC, then put in for re-imbursement. Because the SP was working out of town, it took two months before I was reimbursed. I can afford it, but it does not seem fair that I carry this expense for the club! 

Two possible solutions. The first, within the language of your current agreement: what prevented you from mailing an unsigned check to the traveling Senior Partner for his signature. When he mails it back, you apply your countersignature and deposit the check.

The other solution would be to have two (or more) authorized signatures, require only one signature on the check, but adopt a provision that no one can sign a check payable to himself. Unfortunately, every bank these days will honor any check presented for payment so this doesn't protect the club from an intentional misdeed. But it does at least provide some oversight.

Ira Smilovitz

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