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Subject: Bonding Insurance
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R. Kohl


10/18/2006 1:24 PM  

Has anyone found any alternative sources of bonding insurance for their investment club?

We're looking for a good one that's inexpensive and not very restrictive.  All suggestions welcome.

rip west


10/24/2006 6:15 PM  
As an viable alternative, I would look at setting up stong internal control procedures. These would include having an assistant treasurer, and dividing the repsonsibilities between the two. For instance, one person could collect money and write checks. The other would reconcile bank and broker statements, prepare reports and make all the entries in club accounting. Either could buy or sell securities, but both should be copied on broker statements.

If you set things up correctly, it would be almost impossible to have embezzelment without colusion between the two.

rip west
saint paul, mn

R. Kohl


11/01/2006 3:15 PM  

Thanks Rip. We're having a serious discussion about this issue, and I'm concerned that some of us feel they need actual insurance to give them peace of mind. Any ideas?

Joe Craig
Ellicott City, MD
StockCentral Administrator

11/02/2006 10:47 AM  
I'm concerned that some of us feel they need actual insurance to give them peace of mind. Any ideas?
If that is the case, then I think that the fidelity bond that is available through BetterInvesting probably is a good idea. 

I believe that your club must join BetterInvesting ($25/year) to be able to purchase the fidelity bond.  I believe (I couldn't quickly verify from the BetterInvesting web site) that club membership also include a liability policy.

The fidelity bond is sold once a year.  My club received the mailer just in the last few days and the premium payment for 2007 must be received by 12/31.

The pricing is based on the value of your club's portfolio.  It begins at $40/year for portfolio values up to $25,000 and goes to $730/year for portfolios valued up to $500,000.




Joe

R. Kohl


11/02/2006 1:46 PM  

But there must be some other alternatives...

Joe Craig
Ellicott City, MD
StockCentral Administrator

11/02/2006 2:01 PM  
But there must be some other alternatives...
I'm sure that there are!

Why not start with your own insurance agent and ask ...  I googled "fidelity bond" and got plenty of hits.

Joe

R. Kohl


11/16/2006 1:27 AM  
Hopefully some people at other clubs have gone this route before and can share their lessons learned....

Laura Nunes


12/12/2006 8:01 PM  
I belong to a small club (less than 30 members) and my feelings are that if we can't trust who is in the club, then that is a club that I don't want to be a part of. Financial reports are given monthly, an annual audit is completed and if that isn't good enough, then, as I said, I don't want to be a part of it.

Lynn Ostrem
Minneapolis, MN
garbagecop@earthlink.net

12/13/2006 10:41 AM  

I checked into this once several years ago.  My American Family insurance agent had a policy that was very similar to NAIC's bond, but only slightly more expensive.  If your club is not (or does not wish to be) a member of NAIC, then the policy would have been less.  But I agree with others here.  Most clubs' market values are low enough that it doesn't merit the insurance.  Our club balances to the penny every month, and we all have 24/7 access to our club books.  If we ever get to 6 figures, we might look at it again.  By then, we won't have to worry about the cost!

If your members are seriously worried about this, maybe you don't belong together.  I've been clubbing for nearly 13 years now. and I've been very active in the NAIC community.  I have never heard of a single case where the bond was used, and I don't know of any club that has ever bought it. 

Lynn Ostrem
President, Crow River Investment Club
www.bivio.com/crowriver

 

 


Lynn Ostrem, Minneapolis

Margaret Wentworth


01/03/2007 8:00 PM  

I am the incoming treasurer, having had that position twice in the past. Our club looked into the bonding insurance but did not buy it.

We have an assistant treasurer. This partly to train a new person to do the job, partly to protect in case one computer crashes just before a meeting, and partly so that two people are reconciling the accounting report with the brokerage report. This has worked well for us.

Basically we trust all our members and, with less than 20 members, know each other well. We don't see the need for bond insurance.

Any errors made are corrected at the end of each month and monthly reports are handed out for review. Hope this helps.

Peg, Repeat treasurer


rip west


01/13/2007 10:11 AM  

I agree with some of the thoughts written in this thread and disagree with others. As a CPA, I have been involved in embezzelment cases. I am not impressed with the fact that we are friends and trust one another. In all embezzlement cases, it is not the shifty-eyed suspicious character who takes the money. No, we never would have trusted him with the funds. It is our friend of many years who for one reason or other has felt he had to 'borrow' some money temporarily, always with the intent to pay it back.

So, as stated before, I am not in favor of bonding insurance for investment clubs, but I am in favor of setting up internal control procedures whereby it becomes difficult, if not impossible, for our friendly, trustworthy treasurer to yield to temptation and dip into the funds.

Rip West

 


Eleanor (Robin) Kamin


01/13/2007 11:42 AM  

I have been a co-treasurer of a small club for over 10 years.  We have three co-treasurers.  One collects the checks and makes the deposit into the checking account.  We require two signatures on every check.  She balances the checking account. I handle the accounting software which has to reconcile every month with the checking account.  I also handle the broker account and do the trades.  Our third co-treasurer is an accountant and she does our taxes. She also double checks my entries into the accounting software to catch any mistakes.  It would be very difficult for any of us to take funds so we do not buy the bond insurance and we are very comfortable with our system.  While we have to communicate every month, most communications can be handled by fax or e-mail even when I am traveling. 

Robin Kamin


R. Kohl


01/20/2007 12:56 PM  

Many thanks for the responses.  As we are an online club, some of our members understandably think it is important to get bonding insurance.

We have spent many hours trying to find a company that can offer us bonding insurance for a price similar to what NAIC offered.  Any more suggestions would be highly appreciated.

As far as developing internal controls, we'd also welcome hearing more about how this can be done.  We are working with Etrade.  Is there a way to prevent a member from making an unauthorized withdrawal of the funds?

Thanks in advance for your suggestions.





John Munn


01/20/2007 4:13 PM  
Question...
1. With deposits being paid either by check to the broker's account or by electronic funds transfer into a broker's account, why would it be necessary to segregate this function form the treasurer? It seems to me that deposits paid by check are pretty safe from being misappropriated. How would separating the deposit function enhance security?

2. With on-line account access, anyone with the username/password to a single password account has complete access to a broker's account. Do any brokers have multilevel password authority, that is, different levels of account privileges (such as allowing only viewing transactions, or granting full transactional authority) through various password levels?

How can an on-line partnership protect its assets through internal controls when the broker's account grants full access to whoever has the username/password? Internal controls are not going to solve the problem that theft is a function of who has the username/password to access the4 account. Dual signatures required on cash withdrawals will help, but how many brokers check signatures?

John

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