Joe Craig
Ellicott City, MD
StockCentral Administrator
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| 12/27/2006 3:56 PM |
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NOTE: Ira's workshop has been delayed until January 15
Join us in The Classroom starting Monday, January 15, 2007 for a workshop designed for club treasurers. Ira Smilovitz will lead the discussion. Ira's presentation will focus on year-end procedures.
The workshop will be conducted with messages posted here. You can ask questions and participate in the discussions by replying to those messages.
If you aren't sure how to participate, just ask!
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Joe |
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Joe Craig
Ellicott City, MD
StockCentral Administrator
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| 01/03/2007 1:19 PM |
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Ira's workshop will begin on January 15. Ira will post messages here, and will then discuss, answer questions, etc.
Just tune in on Jan 15 to see what Ira has to say. |
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Joe |
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Bonnie MacPherson
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| 01/05/2007 10:03 PM |
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Joe, I plan to log in for the workshop - looking forward to learning from Ira. This forum is a wonderful exchange of ideas - thank you and all the other folks involved for "making it happen".
Bonnie MacPherson
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Brian White
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| 01/10/2007 10:19 PM |
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Sweet! Look forward to a few tips from Ira. Now about those pesky Massachusetts State forms 
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Gordon Hunnicutt
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| 01/14/2007 11:15 PM |
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| For Club Accounting Online (CAO) the suggested end-of-the-year procedure says to use the time-based method in the allocation settings #1. This is method is difficult to audit so our members want non-time based and those who did things by hand in years past prefer this. I understand the differences! The next step is to check setting #2 and set it to 2006. Is this affected by time or non-time methods? It also says new accounting methodology does not adjust members' valuation units!! That is a radical change from tradition. Now that has everyone upset. I for one do not understand what is happening here. Can you explain? (ggelazela@cox.net) |
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JAMES THOMAS
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| 01/15/2007 1:17 AM |
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> It also says new accounting methodology does not adjust members' valuation units!! That is a radical change from tradition. Now that has everyone upset. I for one do not understand what is happening here. Can you explain? <
The traditional year-end "distribution" was kind of like a stock split. Each partner ended up with more units each worth less (or fewer units each worth more, if the club operated at a loss for the year) with the end result being that the dollar value of each partner's ownership didn't change at all (i.e., it was exactly the same before and after the year-end "distribution"). In other words, the "distribution" didn't accomplish anything (just as a stock split doesn't change the total value of your holdings in that stock). The pie got cut up into a different number of pieces, but the pie remained the same size and the number of people sharing the pie didn't change, so, after the "distribution" everyone had exactly as much pie as they had before the distribution.
The new method does away with the pointless year-end "distribution" of profits/losses while retaining the "allocation" of profits/losses for tax purposes (profits/losses still get allocated to the partners proportionately and still appear on the K-1's).
-Jim Thomas |
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Margaret Wentworth
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| 01/15/2007 11:20 AM |
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| I asked a question about JLG stock that was moved out of this forum and answered by Rip West. Is he a tax expert, another club treasurer, or an suthority of some kind. To repeat my story, we had 100 shares of JLG which was acquired for $28.00 per share cash by Oshkosh Trucks. Our stock was sold automatically for $28.00 and we were not charged any commission or fee by Ameritrade for this transaction. But that same day we were charged a $20.00 "reorganization fee." Rip recommended taking the Ameritrade reorganization fee of $20.00 and calling that a commission. My new question is, what happens if I get my 1099 from Ameritrade and it shows no commission charged for this and I have put in that fee on our records that way? My tax advisor said charge it as a fee. What do you say? |
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Margaret Wentworth
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| 01/15/2007 11:26 AM |
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Second question: We used our August social to as a recruiting meeting to attract new members. Yeah, we got 3 new members out of the 7 that attended. The club reimbursed the hostess for the cost of the food and beverages she served. Can we deduct all of that cost, a portion of the cost, or all of the cost since it was not for our own entertainment but was used to benefit the club?
Peg Wentworth, Treasurer, Women's Investment Network, Lancaster, PA
Thanks for your help with these questions. |
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VIRGINIA GROSSMAN
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| 01/15/2007 11:46 AM |
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Our club disbanded at the end of 2006. All the securities were sold or distributed during the summer, but there is a small final cash distribution to deal with.
My question: Should I wait to "Withdraw" all the members until Jan. 1, 2007 so I can close the books and distribute 2006 earnings with all the members still active, or can I withdraw all the members on Dec. 30, 2006?
V Grossman
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Joe Craig
Ellicott City, MD
StockCentral Administrator
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| 01/15/2007 12:29 PM |
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Rip West is one of our "authorities" when it comes to club treasurer issues. I'd trust him with my portfolio!
For those not aware of names ... Rip West, Ira Smilovitz, Gene Rooks and Herb Barnett are four club treasurer experts that you can trust.
Jim Thomas occasionally weighs in on treasurer issues. You can trust him, too.
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Joe |
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rip west
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| 01/15/2007 12:39 PM |
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I asked a question about JLG stock that was moved out of this forum and answered by Rip West. Is he a tax expert, another club treasurer, or an authority of some kind.
And well you should ask. There are, now, at least 3 forums that deal with club accounting questions. I find that you will get some knowledgeable answers, and some that are completely off the wall. I sympathize with your problem of separating the wheat from the chaff. One thing, I will say is that if you get some very bad advice, someone will step in to correct it. Of course with this new forum, that could take a while.
If I were to tell you that I am 'some authority of some kind' that would be true, but what does that tell you. Some kind takes in a lot of territory.  For what it's worth, I am a retired CPA, presently a consultant to IClub on accounting/taxation matters, and have been answering club accounting matters on various forums for almost 15 years now.
Rip recommended taking the Ameritrade reorganization fee of $20.00 and calling that a commission. My new question is, what happens if I get my 1099 from Ameritrade and it shows no commission charged for this and I have put in that fee on our records that way? My tax advisor said charge it as a fee.
If you enter the $20 as a commission or fee against the sale, you don't get to choose between the two. Club accounting treats them both as a deduction against the sale, and doesn't differentiate between the two. If by 'charge it as a fee' your tax advisor means taking it as an investment expense, that would be wrong. It cannot be considered a deductible expense. It either has to be added to basis or taken as a commission/fee against the sale. Either of those alternatives will give you the same result.
Rip West
Saint Paul, MN
To repeat my story, we had 100 shares of JLG which was acquired for $28.00 per share cash by Oshkosh Trucks. Our stock was sold automatically for $28.00 and we were not charged any commission or fee by Ameritrade for this transaction. But that same day we were charged a $20.00 "reorganization fee." What do you say? |
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Barney Lyons
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| 01/15/2007 2:05 PM |
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My question is about the menu for Distribution of Expense. It gives two choices- 1-By member; 2-by ownership share.
In the case where a new new joins a club and pays the fees for membership and then we write a check to NAIC for the balance of the year's dues and for hiis subscription to BI, it only gives us those two choices. Am I missing something in accounting or should that only be an "in and out expense" for the individual rather than the club?
Barney Lyons |
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IRA SMILOVITZ
Leonia, NJ
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| 01/15/2007 2:41 PM |
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Posted By Margaret Wentworth on 01/15/2007 11:26 AM
Second question: We used our August social to as a recruiting meeting to attract new members. Yeah, we got 3 new members out of the 7 that attended. The club reimbursed the hostess for the cost of the food and beverages she served. Can we deduct all of that cost, a portion of the cost, or all of the cost since it was not for our own entertainment but was used to benefit the club?
Peg Wentworth, Treasurer, Women's Investment Network, Lancaster, PA
Thanks for your help with these questions.
None of the expense is deductible.
Ira Smilovitz
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Ardella Madsen
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| 01/15/2007 2:41 PM |
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Our club owes XTO which merged with Hogoton Royalty trust: No money was exchanged, however I was told
to buy & sell this as trust funds are difficult when tax has to be filed. How do I enter this in my books. I sold the
stock on Dec. 28th but was not recorded until Jan. 4th, 2007. The amount at the time of the merger was more
then what I sold the stock for on Dec. 28. 2006. We sold the stock at a loss but the difference between the books
and our statement will not come out right. We did receive a cash payment of $12.01. How does one handle
Trust funds? Ardella Madsen Aemadmad@msn.come We have been getting small divds. |
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IRA SMILOVITZ
Leonia, NJ
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| 01/15/2007 2:48 PM |
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>>My question is about the menu for Distribution of Expense. It gives two choices- 1-By member; 2-by ownership share.
In the case where a new new joins a club and pays the fees for membership and then we write a check to NAIC for the balance of the year's dues and for hiis subscription to BI, it only gives us those two choices. Am I missing something in accounting or should that only be an "in and out expense" for the individual rather than the club?
Barney Lyons
You are correct in your thinking that it should be an "in and out" expense for the individual, and as such, it shouldn't go through the club's accounts at all. If the member made the payment to the club and the club is issuing the check to BI, then you should make the following entries:
Record the payment by the member as a cash transfer from Suspense to bank/broker. In the comment field note that it is the BI dues payment for the member. When the club issues the check to BI record it as a cash transfer from bank/broker to Suspense. In the comment field record that it is the payment for BI dues for the member. Remind your new member that his/her BI dues are a miscellaneous itemized deduction on his/her personal tax return and that s/he won't be receiving any addtional notification from the club.
Ira Smilovitz |
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Diane Todd
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| 01/15/2007 4:04 PM |
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| How do you find ex-dividends for the year? I just find ones that are current. Diane |
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Tim Wentworth
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| 01/15/2007 4:43 PM |
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Dear Ira,
I had to leave but just came back to find your response. Sorry to hear about it not being deductible, but it was fun all the same and we did get three cracking good members out of it!
Peg |
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Margaret Wentworth
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| 01/15/2007 4:57 PM |
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Dear Rip,
Thanks for responding to my questions. I am new to the site and didn't realize it has resident experienced people onboard. No offense intended. Will redo the sale using the $20.00 fee as commission/fee. This forum seems like a great idea. As I said, something a little different, if not downright weird, happens every year. I now have my group trained to sell shares by blocks, and that helps a lot when I try to make my longterm gains, etc reconcile with the report of the accounting software as a check.
Thanks again,
Peg |
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Joe Craig
Ellicott City, MD
StockCentral Administrator
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| 01/15/2007 5:05 PM |
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> I am new to the site and didn't realize it has resident experienced people onboard.
Peg,
Even though Rip and others are "experts" they aren't "residents" and I don't want to leave the impression that Rip's (or anyone else's opinion) are "official." Though as I've said, I'd trust my portfolio with these folks.
Remarkably, Rip and Ira and Gene and Herb and others really appear here (and in other places) voluntarily. I think that's an even higher calling than as a paid staffer. So, not only should you give their answers serious consideration, but we thank them always for their generous contributions to this and other forums.
I'm also glad that you find StockCentral helpful. I hope that you can your clubmembers will continue to find that to be true!
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Joe |
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VIRGINIA GROSSMAN
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| 01/15/2007 5:10 PM |
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I'm not sure I was posting in the correct way since I got no response, so here's another try:
Our club disbanded at the end of 2006. All the securities were sold or distributed during the summer, but there is a small final cash distribution to deal with.
My question: Should I wait to "Withdraw" all the members until Jan. 1, 2007 so I can close the books and distribute 2006 earnings with all the members still active, or can I withdraw all the members on Dec. 30, 2006? |
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rip west
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| 01/15/2007 8:59 PM |
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I'm not sure I was posting in the correct way since I got no response, so here's another try:
Our club disbanded at the end of 2006. All the securities were sold or distributed during the summer, but there is a small final cash distribution to deal with. My question: Should I wait to "Withdraw" all the members until Jan. 1, 2007 so I can close the books and distribute 2006 earnings with all the members still active, or can I withdraw all the members on Dec. 30, 2006?
You did post it in the correct way, but I think we are all a little confused about this workshop. It seems to be contained in two separate threads now. I didn't answer your first inquiry, because I though Ira might cover it in his presentation. We all seemed to have jumped the gun and begun firing questions before he has been allowed to say a word.
However, since you have asked, not only nicely, but twice, I will attempt to answer. I think the IRS would, if asked, say that your club terminated in 2006, since you have nothing but a small cash balance to contend with since summer. You say 'all securities were sold or distributed' during the summer. You might have a problem if you entered partial withdrawals for them at that time, and are planning on having a final distribution now or as of the end of 2006. The problem is with regard to what the basis of those stocks will be in the hands of the withdrawees.
This is probably a bit much to take up with everyone else in the forum. If you want to talk to me about it, you can reach me at ripwest@comcast.net. It would also help if you could export your data file and email it to me at that address, also.
Rip West
Saint Paul, MN
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Merilee Hannahs
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| 01/16/2007 8:16 PM |
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| I inherited the Treasurer's position for our club and they have been using Club Acctg version 1 for the last 9 years. We have purchased iclub CAO and I have been successful in transferring all our data. I have read a number of posts on the BI Treasurer discussion group regarding posting Annual fees and allocation of expenses. What procedure do you recommend for posting the annual fees our members pay to the club, the expenses paid to BI for both the club membership renewal and individual member renewal? Thank you, Merilee Hannahs |
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Lesley Pantich
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| 01/19/2007 9:27 AM |
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| I go to Yahoo Finance. Go to the Historical Prices section. Put in the time range and Stock symbol you are looking for and select the "Dividends Only" option. The dates they return are the ex-dividend dates. |
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CAROLYN RAFTIS
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| 02/01/2007 10:45 AM |
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| Our Broker charges a .02% fee for reinvesting dividends. In CA3 that fee shows up as added in on the dividends for the cost basis, but then the dividends are recorded incorrectly for our IRS filing. I'm wondering if the dividends + fee are what will print out on the Return. Ever run across this? Thanks. Carolyn Raftis |
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